Maha Bharat: Episode 36

State Legislative Councils: Why do some states have it and what do they do?

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Over the years, many states have established and then abolished legislative councils from their governments. Now, the Legislative Council is like a Rajya Sabha for the state, its upper chamber. It is clearly an important part of the government, so how can it just be abolished so easily?

For most of us, the bigger question often is: what exactly do state legislative councils even do? We hear about the Legislative Assembly often, but not the council. So why do some states have it — and why have some other states choosen to abolish it?

We’ll find out in this episode.

Show Notes

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Full Transcript of Episode 36 –

The year – 1986. The place – Tamil Nadu. 

The AIADMK party is in power, and M.G. Ramachandran who we also know as MGR is the Chief Minister. Like some states in India, the Tamil Nadu government has two levels: the State Legislative Assembly and State Legislative Council – this is like the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha in the Parliament. These are two houses of the state government.

With me so far?

Everything was going normally. Just like Rajya Sabha, the state government had to nominate members to the Legislative Council. MGR nominated the popular actress Nirmala, a supporter of AIADMK. And this is when it got very interesting and dramatic. 

Two days before Nirmala’s swearing in ceremony, it was found that she could not be a part of the state government, because she had declared insolvency (in-sol-vancy) ya दिवालियापन. Simple words mein, she had loans to pay that she could not — and an insolvent (in-sol-vant) person cannot be in the government, legally speaking. 

To Ab? 

MGR gave Nirmala money as a loan, to pay off her debts. No longer insolvent (in-sol-vant), Nirmala could be in the Council now! But then, she withdrew because of public pressure. The spotlight shifted to MGR now: how did he nominate someone to the legislative council without checking? 

So what was the result of this? It may sound crazy to you, but MGR decided to abolish the Legislative Council altogether. Naa raha council, na rahegi controversy!

But this isn’t just the story of Tamil Nadu, friends. Over the years, many states have established and then abolished legislative councils from their governments. I just told you that the Legislative Council is basically like a Rajya Sabha for the state. The Upper Chamber. But even I can’t help but wonder, from this story, how can it just be abolished so easily? 

The other question we often have is: what exactly do state legislative councils even do? We hear about the Legislative Assembly often, but not the council. So why do some states have it — and why do some other states choose to abolish it?

We’ll find out all of this in today’s episode.

Aaj ek cheez toh clear hai: that we’re going to talk about State governments. If you’ve been with me on Maha Bharat over the last few months, you would know that we often talk about how India has a Federal Structure. This means that our central government, and the parliament, are extremely important — but the governments at the state level also have considerable power. 

Recently, Bihar had its elections, and we couldn’t take our eyes off the close race between the NDA and Mahagathbandhan Alliances.

[We hear a news reporter speak about the election race in Bihar]

This election, like all state elections that you vote in, decide who gets elected to the State Legislative Assembly, matlab the Vidhan Sabha. We elect Members of the Legislative Assembly or MLAs in state elections. All of our 29 states and 2 union territories have legislative assemblies. 

But in some states, the state legislature is not limited only to these assemblies. Six states in our country also have another house in the state government: the Legislative Council. Yaani, Vidhan Parishad.

In these states, the Assembly is the lower house, and the Council is the upper house. This might sound familiar to you — because this is the structure of our Parliament, too. Just like the Lok Sabha, the members of the State Legislative Assembly are elected by the citizens. And like the Rajya Sabha, the Legislative Council has indirect elections. The members are nominated by the Governor and elected by MLAs and other groups. The Legislative Council is a permanent house – matlab, it never dissolves, but 1/3rd of the house retires every two years. This way new members join the house.

The six states that have this system are Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Bihar, Karnataka, Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh. 

Why only these six? Simple: Article 169 in the constitution allows the parliament to make Legislative Councils for states, if a resolution for this is passed by the Assembly of the state.

Take Andhra Pradesh, for example. The State government of Andhra Pradesh had only one house, the Legislative Assembly after independence. In 1956, the Assembly of Andhra Pradesh passed a resolution to create an upper house in the government. The Parliament accepted this resolution, aur bas: Andhra Pradesh had a new legislative council.

The exact role of the legislative council is not easy to define — but broadly, like any upper house, its role is to keep an eye on the Assembly’s decisions. Debates and decisions in the Councils make sure that the legislative assembly doesn’t make any hasty decisions. But all in all, the powers of the legislative council are quite limited. 

But this was not the case a 100 years ago — where you will find that some historic decisions were taken by some of our most respected leaders, in the chambers of the state legislative council.

Our State assemblies, the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha, were formed after independence. But Legislative Councils were actually formed as early as in 1861!

Yeh tab ki baat hai, jab the British government had taken over India, and was recovering from the revolt of 1857. This was a rebellion by Indian soldiers and citizens against the British East India Company, which we also call the First war of Indian Independence. 

4 years after this, in 1861, the government passed the Indian Councils Act, a law that would allow more Indians to be a part of the British administration. This law also gave power to the states, instead of concentrating it at the centre. 

But these “states” looked a little different 150 years ago than they do today. They were actually provinces. For instance, the Madras presidency included Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, some parts of Kerala and even Odisha! So, power to states meant that these provinces would have their own legislative councils. Some members of these councils were Indian citizens — but most were still British government officers.

These councils, like the Bombay Legislative Council or the Bengal Legislative Council were similar to the councils we know today in one main aspect: just like the members of the Legislative councils ask questions to the MLAs, the members of the British Legislative Councils debated on and questioned the policies of the British government in India!

Legislative councils were one of the first examples of Indian representation in the British government. 

So, if Legislative Councils have existed for a long time. Toh fir yeh assembly and council ka mamla kya hai? What happened is: in 1935, the government passed the Government of India Act. This act set up a bicameral legislature in six of the provinces. There would be two houses now: Legislative Assembly and Legislative Council. 

Aur yaha se shuru hoti hai, aaj ki legislative council ki kahani. 

Let me see if you can answer this – Can you think about the one thing Rajya Sabha and Legislative Council have in common?

It’s this: just like the Rajya Sabha, not all members of the Legislative Council are politicians. The MLAs and local governmental bodies elect about 2/3rd of the council. As for the rest, some are nominated by the governor, and others are citizens who are elected by the teachers and graduates of the state. These individuals are from the fields of education, science, literature, social services.

Isse hota yeh hai, ki different sections of the society become a part of the state legislature. And perhaps this was the reason that Dr. B.R. Ambedkar chose to introduce an important bill in the Legislative Council instead of the Assembly. 

In 1937, Dr. Ambedkar introduced a bill to abolish the Khoti System. According to this system, the Khots, yaani landlords, had a right to collect land revenue from farmers for the land they worked on. This system exploited the farmers, and Dr. Ambedkar’s bill spread awareness about it — across the state of Bombay, as it was called then. Even though it was abolished years later, this is where the movement began – in the chambers of the Bombay Legislative Council. 

That was years and years ago. So, what’s happened since then?

Well, there’s one question that has been asked in various states since then. Do we need the Legislative Councils?

For instance, the case of the Andhra Pradesh Council. This happened, in the Legislative Assembly of Andhra Pradesh, in January this year:

[We hear Jagan Mohan Reddy announce the abolishment of the Andhra Pradesh Legislative Council]

This was Jagan Mohan Reddy, Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh. Baat yeh hai, ki in the Legislative Council of Andhra Pradesh, the opposition party, Telugu Desam Party ya TDP had a majority. In fact, of the 58 seats in the council, only 9 belonged to the ruling party. Bas, by this time, you and I both know how the rest of this story goes: this caused friction between both parties, especially the two leaders Jagan Mohan Reddy of YSR Congress and Chandrababu Naidu of TDP. The TDP often delayed bills that were passed by the Legislative Assembly. And so the ruling party wanted to get rid of that problem.

But this is not the first time that such a thing is happening in the Andhra Pradesh government! In fact, this is the most interesting part: in 2007, it was Jagan Mohan Reddy’s father Rajashekhara Reddy who had revived this council in the first place! 

I’m telling you all this, because there’s a pattern here. 

After independence, the Andhra Pradesh Council had been created and then abolished in 1985. At this time, the TDP was in power. And who was the opposition? Indian National Congress. 

The Congress party was also the majority in the Legislative Council. Iska nateeja yeh tha, that the Legislative Council often delayed the bills passed by the Assembly. And just like you heard sometime back, the TDP went ahead and abolished the Council itself.

And now, more than 30 years later, situation palat gaya hai. The TDP is the opposition now, and had a majority in the council, and this time they were delaying legislation. And once again, the ruling party decided to abolish the Legislative Council.

See the pattern I was talking about?

The question here is, how powerful is the Legislative Council, if the ruling party can create and abolish it as they please?

On one hand, the Upper Chamber exists to make sure the Legislative Assembly doesn’t take any rash decisions. But what is the meaning of governance, if the House of Elders–matlab the Council–blocks and delays laws?

And then there are states like Odisha and Madhya Pradesh, which are planning to introduce a new Legislative Council in the state. Why? Some ministers say Odisha is only making a Legislative Council so that the supporters of the Ruling Party, BJD, get a ticket.

So, it’s definitely a confusing state of affairs, but there is one thing we know for sure: the fate of the Legislative Council is in the hands of the ruling party of a state. 

Created and Abolished…that’s the history of State Legislative Councils in our country. This is quite unique — after all, the Rajya Sabha or even the Legislative Assembly cannot simply be abolished so easily. 

So let’s get to the big question: what do the State Councils do?

So, I decided to do some research about one Legislative Council, to try and find an answer to this. Let’s talk about Andhra Pradesh, since it has been in the news recently. 

According to Jagan Mohan Reddy, the Andhra Pradesh State government spends nearly ₹60 crores on the Legislative Council every year. This includes salaries of the council members and other administrative costs. The schemes or activities that the state carries out, related to the resolutions passed in this house, come from another section of the budget, and not these 60 crores. 

Let’s see what the Andhra Pradesh legislative council has done so far, in this year. 

The Andhra Pradesh council has held 2 sessions this year, the 35th and the 36th session. The 35th session was held in December and January, and it lasted 45 hours. This was an important session for the state, because in January, the Legislative Council received the Assembly’s resolution to make three capitals in the state. The council referred this bill to a separate committee — yaani, another group of people will review it again, and it will take longer for the bill to pass.

In February, this session was prorogued by the Governor. Prorogued matlab? Simply, the session was discontinued. In July, the Thirty Sixth Session of the Council commenced. But soon, this session was also discontinued. 

And that’s all, so far. 

Even in the limited sessions held and work done by the Legislative Council of Andhra Pradesh, there was a lot of controversy because the council delayed legislation. 

So, the most important functions of a Council is to review bills, discuss and bring across a sophisticated, diverse point of view. But in many cases, the agendas of the political parties involved also become a part of the Council. Especially since the ruling party has the power to create or abolish a council!

The most common argument against the Legislative Council is often that it is a strain on the state budget, without sufficient results. In the case of Andhra Pradesh, like we just heard — and even other states, for that matter — this claim might be true. 

Doston, ghum firke we have talked about the Legislative Councils of a few states, but what is the question that we are really asking today? Not what the Council does. But this:

Do we need State Legislative Councils?

And we’re not the only ones wondering about this. There is a popular debate that revolves around how necessary the State Legislature Councils are. After Andhra Pradesh’s recent decision to abolish it, this debate has started again. Now that we know what these councils do, we can understand both sides of this debate. 

The interesting fact is that this question is not a new one. Whether we need State Legislative Councils was a question argued about in the Constituent Assembly too. 

Yeh baat tab hui this when the Constitution was being drafted.

In several discussions, members of the committee were highly opposed to this upper house in the state. Unlike the Rajya Sabha, this house did not represent any communities. They feared it would be unnecessary. For instance, a member, K.T. Shah who represented Bihar, said that the second chamber just aids “party bosses to distribute patronage” (isse political party ke bade log seat baant te hai)

People who want the upper house must have vested interests. Debates like these were very common.

In one of these discussions, the members were getting involved in a heated debate about the council again — even though the matter at hand wasn’t even about the upper house. Dr. Ambedkar, who had been part of the Drafting committee and had included the Legislative Council in the constitution, was questioned. And you know what he said? Dr. Ambedkar was of the opinion that he was neither in favour of nor completely against the Councils. He said that the council had its good points and bad, thoda sa accha, thoda sa bura. 

Actually, jaisa unhone sabko bataya, the Legislative Councils had only been introduced in our legislation as an “experimental measure”. So, the states are given enough power to remove of the council, if they want.

Let’s bring this debate to the present day. In 2018, we found that the Odisha Legislative Assembly had passed a bill to form a Legislative Council for the state. It requested 35 crores from the state budget for the Council. This raised a lot of questions: Odisha, a small state, does it need a Council?

The bill was opposed in the Assembly by the opposition parties, which were the BJP and Congress. The ruling party, Biju Janata Dal ya BJD passed the bill…but the curious thing is, an anonymous BJD member admitted that even he didn’t understand how a Council will benefit a small state like Odisha. In Odisha, the Legislative Assembly is supposed to meet for 60 days in a year. But this hasn’t happened for 8 years now! BJD ke member bhi yahi kehte hai: when the Assembly itself isn’t working for the state, how will the Council, jinka kaam Assembly ke baad hai, help it?

And that’s something for us to think about too: are Legislative Councils being created by state governments for its benefit, or for political reasons? Do these councils cost too much to the state?

The other side of the debate is: in theory, a legislative assembly can benefit from the balance that a Council brings. The writers of our constitution thought so, too. A legislature with 2 houses is useful, especially for bigger states.

When we debate about the necessity of State Legislative Councils today, Dr. Ambedkar’s words are important to remember. 

He reminded us that in cases where the Legislative Councils do not contribute to the legislature fruitfully, the states should take a call on removing them. And in cases where the upper house does slow down legislation, we wonder if it is for legitimate reasons or political motives. 

The story of the Legislative Council has had its ups and downs. Some states want it, and others are removing it. In some states, the councils work, and in others, they’re unnecessary. 

But for our part, we have all the information to know what to look out for. The next time we hear about elections to Legislative Councils or news about abolishing them, we know the right question to ask: does this state even need a legislative council?

That’s it from me for this week! I hope we learnt something new and interesting, as always. See you next week, for a brand new episode of Maha Bharat. 

Credits

Narrated by – Dhruv Rathee
Producer – Gaurav Vaz
Written by – Anushka Mukherjee and Gaurav Vaz
Edited by – Medha V
Title Track Design – Abhijith Nath
Audio Production – Madhav Ayachit